My father was born in the Austro Hungarian Empire in the town of Bogarosch (a couple of miles Northwest of Timisoara) in 1913. During the 1910s, his extended family started coming to the US. He arrived in 1922. His grandparents brought him over as his parents had been in the US since 1918. His father had died in the US just prior to this and his grandmother died at Ellis Island leaving just his mother and grandfather. His place of departure was listed as Romania as it had become part of Romania and was no longer part of the Austro Hungarian Empire. I assumed that my 9 year old father or at least his grandparents were Romanian citizens. I was wrong.
I contacted several Romanian lawyers from the US Department of State's Romanian Consulate's website to see if I could get citizenship. The only original documentation I have from the 'old country' is a copy of my father's Baptismal Certificate - not a government document. Of course, I now have church, census and immigration records. One of the lawyers was extremely helpful and responded back as follows:
"Thank you for your inquiry. I can see that you put a lot of thought and research into this, as your questions are exactly on point.The answers are as follows:1. Your father was born as a Hungarian citizen [technically back then: subject of the Holy Hungarian Crown], in 1913 Transylvania / Banat;2. In 1918, persons who were living in Transylvania were not immediately granted Romanian citizenship. In fact, the Romanian state waited until 1925 to close the citizenship lists exactly so as to encourage the emigration of non-Romanian ethnics before they got Romanian citizenship;3. Such persons, who all emigrated in the period 1920-1924, got Romanian emigration passports, which attested just their identity, and not their Romanian citizenship. Very few actually got citizens-passports, by obtaining citizenship beforehand. Technically, they were considered "stateless by non-option", i.e. not having gotten either Romanian citizenship, or Hungarian citizenship, which was an option until 1925, on condition of then selling everything and moving to Hungary;4. The further problem is documentation: anyone who left before 1930 does not have any means whatsoever within Romanian archives to prove citizenship [some very lucky souls have had their citizenship lists for 1925 kept, but in any case nothing extends before 1925].Thus, unless you have your father's Romanian passport, and it happens to be a citizen-passport [it is not apparent, the difference is made by a note on one of the inside pages], you are in the impossibility of proving his Romanian citizenship, and thus of applying.Finally, your grandparents' situation does not help either. They left clearly as non-citizens, so that is a non-starter, and in any case any potential application has to focus on the last emigrant generation, i.e. your father.So the key lies in your family archives. Either you find a Romanian passport, or, exceptionally, there can be a few other papers showing Romanian citizenship (they must in any case be issued by Romania). In case of doubt, please scan everything you have, and I will gladly look for free. Sometimes the citizenship mention is thrown about in other paperwork, such as "proofs of good standing", "proofs of no debt", or "proof of vaccination", which were all required for departure. It does not hurt to look, particularly since unless the proof is in your archives, it will not be in Romania."
From a further email:
"...in the 1910s they would never have been Romanian citizens in any case.However, since you mentioned Hungarian citizenship, their descent program is significantly different, in a good way, from the Romanian one...you are entitled to apply for their citizenship by descent.Essentially, for political reasons I will not get into, Hungary does recognize everyone who lived in Transylvania before 1918 as Hungarian citizens, thus as a good fount for any descendant today to apply for their passports."
Based on this,I can not become a Romanian citizen. My grandparents left before it became part of Romania and I have no evidence my father or his grandparents became Romanian citizens. Aside from Citizenship by Investment, this does not leave me many options...
If anyone needs a good Romanian lawyer, let me know and I will pass on a few names!
Ed.
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 04:39:56 PM EST, Edward Lowitz via groups.io <edward.lowitz1@...> wrote:
Has anyone on the list tried for Hungarian Citizenship?
Thanks!
Ed.